*** Posted by FAULKEN ***
This question is relates to the ground radar in Falcon 4.0 and how it compares to the real thing.

Does locking a target in GM or GMT mode place some type of symbology on the HUD of the real jet? I have not seen this happen in F4, but would assume it occurs in the real jet. The symbology on the HUD would ease CCIP bomb drops from medium to high altitude release during clear or cloudy conditions, given that targets from that altitude would be difficult to see.

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hello Faulken,

The weapons delivery system in F4 is very similar to the real jet apart from some points. Firstly I want to point out what is missing in F4 as opposed to the real F-16.

Firstly, in the real jet the pilot can simulate a weapons delivery check and other checks to make sure his weapons and systems are working correctly. He can even simulate a roll in without turning the jet to see how fast the computer can lock-up a target under the present conditions. I know F-16 A's have slightly different systems with regards to the bombing, but that's not too important at this time.

Secondly, the real weapons perameters are still classified but they will not be too different to F4. The only part that has recently been declassified from the weapons is the real Aim-9 growl, which you can now DL for the sim.

Ok so you want to know if locking-up the target in the real jet in GM (Ground Map) or GMT (Ground moving Target) mode displays the same symbology as Falcon 4? Well the answer is yes! If you are in CCIP (Continuously, Computed, Impact, Point) mode. You will see the targets visually and on the MFD (Multi Function Display) and in your HUD (Heads Up Display) if your flying in the direction of the target. The targets should be around the IP marker so you will have to start looking hard to find them in F4, becuase like real life they may be difficult to spot at altitude, look for dust being kicked up for moving targets and check the TWS for static targets it will give you a rough idea of where they are as well as looking on the MFD to help your combat situational awareness (very important to know what's going on around you).

The small circle at the bottom end of the bomb fall line is called the "Pipper". This is your guide to "Pickle" the targets. When making a bombing run keep the the plane on a steady course to the target. In a real F-16 you may have to deal with cross winds when bombing making this a bit harder, it's a shame they did not simulate this in the sim. Keep the nose down slightly when you come in on the target and let the Pipper creep up the bomb fall line to the target, this will ensure accuracy when bombing, as in the real jet. So when you "visually" see your target like a runway or aircraft bunker (depending on armament), place the Pipper over the target and pickle the target (hold down the fire button). Remember though that is is very important to keep the plane steady at this point because the computer is still calculating the right time to release! Try to ignore the bomb fall line and the Pipper when rolling in, concentrate on getting the gun cross close to the aim off point. This means you will be flying in the target/s direction anyway.

Sorry for this being long but as you can see there's alot more to bombing than meets the eye!

Regards

Rapier

*** Posted by FAULKEN ***
Thank you for the quick response, but.....

I guess what I'm really asking is this: The HUD symbology for Steerpoints is a small diamond, and what I would like to know is if a similar type of symbol (i.e. a Target Designation, TD box )is displayed on the HUD of the real jet for a locked ground target while in CCIP mode?

Relying on a visual for bombing runs from 15,000 to 20,000, or through clouds is tough; I would have to imagine that some type of symbology is utilized in the real jet to ease the burden of acquiring a Tally on the ground target.

Again to date I have not witnessed any type of TD style box for a locked target while in CCIP mode, CCRP is a different matter all together and might be the mode of choice for a high(er) altitude attack profile. EF2000 had this feature...completely different jet and SIM, I know, but...

As you may already know it is nice to stay above 10K when there a SA-7's in the area. I try to keep my release as close to 10K as possible when dropping dumb/or CBU bombs. If there was some type of symbology in the real jet (unclassified of course) we should petition Microprose to add this to F4. I am lucky enough to be in the outside beta testing program (not sure if that will help or not), and might take this up with them if the real jet has this feature.

Now I apologize for the length of this post.

FAULKEN


[Hello Faulken,

The weapons delivery system in F4 is very similar to the real jet apart from some points. Firstly I want to point out what is missing in F4 as opposed to the real F-16.

Firstly, in the real jet the pilot can simulate a weapons delivery check and other checks to make sure his weapons and systems are working correctly. He can even simulate a roll in without turning the jet to see how fast the computer can lock-up a target under the present conditions. I know F-16 A's have slightly different systems with regards to the bombing, but that's not too important at this time.

Secondly, the real weapons perameters are still classified but they will not be too different to F4. The only part that has recently been declassified from the weapons is the real Aim-9 growl, which you can now DL for the sim.

Ok so you want to know if locking-up the target in the real jet in GM (Ground Map) or GMT (Ground moving Target) mode displays the same symbology as Falcon 4? Well the answer is yes! If you are in CCIP (Continuously, Computed, Impact, Point) mode. You will see the targets visually and on the MFD (Multi Function Display) and in your HUD (Heads Up Display) if your flying in the direction of the target. The targets should be around the IP marker so you will have to start looking hard to find them in F4, becuase like real life they may be difficult to spot at altitude, look for dust being kicked up for moving targets and check the TWS for static targets it will give you a rough idea of where they are as well as looking on the MFD to help your combat situational awareness (very important to know what's going on around you).

The small circle at the bottom end of the bomb fall line is called the "Pipper". This is your guide to "Pickle" the targets. When making a bombing run keep the the plane on a steady course to the target. In a real F-16 you may have to deal with cross winds when bombing making this a bit harder, it's a shame they did not simulate this in the sim. Keep the nose down slightly when you come in on the target and let the Pipper creep up the bomb fall line to the target, this will ensure accuracy when bombing, as in the real jet. So when you "visually" see your target like a runway or aircraft bunker (depending on armament), place the Pipper over the target and pickle the target (hold down the fire button). Remember though that is is very important to keep the plane steady at this point because the computer is still calculating the right time to release! Try to ignore the bomb fall line and the Pipper when rolling in, concentrate on getting the gun cross close to the aim off point. This means you will be flying in the target/s direction anyway.

Sorry for this being long but as you can see there's alot more to bombing than meets the eye!

Regards

Rapier]

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hello Faulken,

Sorry if I miss-understood your earlier question, nice to hear from you again. I just wanted to point out to you that you have made a very good question about the HUD symbology. I have often wondered myself if there was a symbol to make CCIP bombing a little easier. I think that CCIP bombing was a basic idea of bombing at low altitude for better accuracy. When you think about this it is suited well because most bombing done using CCIP in done at low level really, like when you drop CBU and runway denial bombs. I think that it is the same in the sim as the real Aircraft becuase it would not be worth classifying something like this as I am sure you would agree.

Basically I would not use CCIP bombing at high altitudes for many reasons. Firstly the bombing will not be as accurate as the pilot would like becuase we must think of the conditions and our surroundings even when bombing, there are always cross wind's to consider even for bomb's as most bombs used for CCIP are not that smart, they are the basic bomb's like the one's used in the second world war, apart from being designed in a better way I suppose the computer help's alot when bombing in this mode. Secondly I have noticed a way off target accuracy if I try to drop these at high altitude, it will sometimes not allow me to drop the weapon if I am flying the wrong perameters to the target. CCIP can do some strange things. For high alt bombing I use CCRP as you can see the target designator come up around the target you locked up so you can be more accurate from high alt.

It would be nice as you mentioned to include a TD box in F4 to aid the less experienced so I dont see why Microprose cant do this. If you are a beta tester for F4 then you have a higher chance of MP listening to you so it might be a good idea for you to do mention that to them.

Keep up the good work on the beta team, I hope 1.07 will be a major improvement!

Kind Regards

Rapier

*** Posted by run ***
Hi guys

When you are going to drop your bombs in CCIP you always fly in with CCRP selected and then switch to CCIP when you have the target visual.
The reason there is no target designator is in order not to clutter up the target area. The CCIP is the precision mode when you are talking dumb bombs, so it is importent to be able to see your target clearly and not have a TD box cluttering it up.
CCIP takes just as much into consideration as CCRP (wind/G's etc.)

run

*** Posted by FAULKEN ***
Run,

Do the "Official Military" drop parameters allow for "dumb bomb" deployment/release using CCIP mode from altitudes of 15,000 ft. or more, or is it determined based upon the Air Defense(s) surrounding a particular target?

Thank you both for responding here, this is a great area to post ?'s. BTW which of you is the real Viper driver, and which is the owner of this website??

[Hi guys

When you are going to drop your bombs in CCIP you always fly in with CCRP selected and then switch to CCIP when you have the target visual.
The reason there is no target designator is in order not to clutter up the target area. The CCIP is the precision mode when you are talking dumb bombs, so it is importent to be able to see your target clearly and not have a TD box cluttering it up.
CCIP takes just as much into consideration as CCRP (wind/G's etc.)

run]

*** Posted by run ***
[Run,

Do the "Official Military" drop parameters allow for "dumb bomb" deployment/release using CCIP mode from altitudes of 15,000 ft. or more, or is it determined based upon the Air Defense(s) surrounding a particular target?

Thank you both for responding here, this is a great area to post ?'s. BTW which of you is the real Viper driver, and which is the owner of this website?? ]

Íf you are visual with the target you can use both CCIP & CCRP above 15000 with a dumb bomb. Just because you are above 15000 feet doesn't mean you are safe. Most SAM go way above 15000 feet. It's mostly protection against handborne stuff.

I'm the Viper driver & the owner of this website.

run

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hello,

Yes there are perameters for droping bomb's of course. Every pilot who fly's a military jet SHOULD know what each and every weapon and it's perameters for deployment are. If they dont then they should be flying gliders. Basically you can use CCIP for high alt bombing but I prefer to use CCRP mode for high alt bombing. Basically SAM's are a pilot's worst enemy apart from other Enemy planes. SAM's can be launched from the ground and reach high altitudes very quickly, this is what they are designed for to kill the aircraft and the pilot. Basically it is all about mission planning, if you dont plan well then things are bound to go wrong. Plan well and you have a much better chance of everything going right the way you want it. It is determined on alot of things Faulken, not only what altitude the bomb should be droped from but also what type of bomb or armament would be suited to the type of target. You might get to the target area and find you got the wrong weapons for the job if you have planned badly or not at all.

RUN is the real F-16 pilot and webmaster here, I am a Virtual F-16 pilot who enjoys F4 and the F-16 in general.

Regards

Rapier

[Do the "Official Military" drop parameters allow for "dumb bomb" deployment/release using CCIP mode from altitudes of 15,000 ft. or more, or is it determined based upon the Air Defense(s) surrounding a particular target?

Thank you both for responding here, this is a great area to post ?'s. BTW which of you is the real Viper driver, and which is the owner of this website??]